Wednesday, December 07, 2005


On daily basis I try to run away from politics, from lies which can not easily be admitted by what we call our world leaders. But in my same daily marathon I tend to look back and see how far have I gone or how far can I go. The results emerging mostly from thoughts are always disturbing. What is intelligence, what is ethics and many more similar vocabularies,so famous in politicians mouths? Simple realization,I can't run away from politics,it affects both of us.You and me ,in and out. But does it help me to only talk about and do nothing more? I am convincing myself that it does.It makes my soul free,I become holly before death.I am imagining how does heaven measure sin?Is it not by what we think first and what we do later? Actus Reus and Mens Rea are not only legal terms then.May be they originate from above.
In politics,I am not sure where I stand when it comes to American Politics. Where do you think I should stand when my screen flushes information like this? Click here.


The Intolerant One said...

Interesting. I might suggest two things.

1.)Don't believe everything you read

2.)Always remember that propaganda is played out on both side's of any political event.

When it came to the war in Iraq, all politics aside, I had ask myself the the world better with Saddam Hussein or our we better off without?

I know where I stand. Hope you are able to come to some conclusions. I enjoyed reading your blog.

mandora said...

I'm sorry, but that's a very one-sided arguement. The Iraqi people suffered a LOT in this war, and who got to make the decision that 30 000 (or whatever the number is now...) innocent Iraqis get to die to take out Saddam? Would you have been willing to see your home destroyed, your family tortured and killed, your homeland mutilated for the cause? If yes, then I commend you for sticking to your principles and more power to you for being a courageous person. If not, then I think we need to find a better discourse when discussing this 'war'.

Jeff Msangi said...

Good point Mandora. There is no way one can justify this ruthless war against people in their own country.I think if we are talking about a better world with or without so and so,we don't have to look very far away.

mandora said...

Couldn't agree more. Very well stated.

The Intolerant One said...

Jeff: regarding your question about "December 25" I responded on my site. I hope it is helpful

Mandora: This is my first interaction with you and already I am impressed with your spunk!(that is a sincere compliment by the way). You mention my one sided arguement...I was not aware I was involved in one.

You ask some very legitimate question's. I was actually trying to encourage Jeff to weigh the evidence's by acknowledging that, whether one is for or against the war, both side's will naturally try to twist and distort their information to win support for their view. I would recommend that he proceed with caution on every media release and be sure that it coincides with other reports. I think in all fairness we could both agree that propganda plays a big part in any conflict and in alot of cases we hear of false reports coming from both ends of the spectrums. If you recall, I also encouraged Jeff to draw his own conclusions, not mine.

My personal view on this war is not one I take lightly or have made hastily. I have followed American politics, Iraq, and UN dealings closely for over 16 years. I would like to respond to your questions as I do have my own answers but I do not want to take up Jeff's blog space. You may have challenged me to write a blog entry on this topic. I "hear" everything that you are saying and have had those questions in my own head before which is why my decision to agree with the war was not an easy one.

I suspect you and I could banter back and forth alot (provided it was respectful debate) as I have this feeling we would not agree on much. If we don't connect again...Merry Christmas!

PS to Jeff: Nice picture, your a handsome fella!

mandora said...

I look forward to your own blog entry!


A good debate is always welcome. Perhaps a blog-style debate.. you post on your blog, I'll post a rebuttal on my blog. Sound fair?
(And of course, nothing but respect. I can't handle people who 'debate' by slamming the other person. If you don't have a real arguement, then just shut up)

Merry Christmas to all!

Jeff Msangi said...

I agree with all of you to the point that a good argument does not need war like confrontation.Its point by point.To be more open I would like to point out again that I am anti-war because I believe the best way to win a war is to avoid it.We have countless examples on this.I am looking forward to read more about this debate in your blogs and here as well.Thanks for the inspiration you are both giving me.Thanks for the compliment as well.

The Intolerant One said...

I believe that, deep down, everybody is anti-war even when they support it. I can't imagine anyone who would "get a kick" out of it. (except maybe tyrannical dictators who have a bloodlust for more and more power)

My Grandfathers fought in World war 2 and one thing I remember about my one grandfather (he passed away Dec.22/99) was that he almost never talked about the war. However when he did, you could see pain in his eyes from lost friends and comrades as well as unpleasant memories.

One thing he once told me that has forever been burned into my memory when referring to WW2 was this (I will do my best to qoute it word for word):

"There is nothing edifying or glorifying about war and I pray you never have to fight in one. Watching your friends you grew up with die or forever maimed is something noone should have to go thru.
But, sometimes war is necesarry. Freedom does not come without a price."

I think we have often heard other war veterans say similiar things. As one recently pointed out in a local media story..."if it were not for us(soliders) you would not have the freedom to disagree with war."

At the end of the day, Jeff, I think we could all agree that war is not the answer. Unfourtunatly, when conflict arises and freedoms are threatened, some world leader's are unwillingly to negotiate.

Jeff Msangi said...

I agree with you.The only thing I find hard to understand is that sometimes the so called world leaders do not even give each other a chance for explanation or negotiation.You either do it this way or we attack you.Justice,freedom,democracy,human rights etc becomes words for wars and not peace.Sorry about the loss of your grandfather!

The Intolerant One said...

Thanks for your condolences. I miss my grandfather alot but I will be re-united with him one day. I have not forgotten your question on my site about the "Christmas tree". I have been away for the last 24 hours so continue to go back I will have your answer for that as well.