Friday, December 16, 2005


Finally I am starting to understand what my peers used to tell me when I was becoming a political aspirant just like any youth in mid twenties. That is the time when the ego just keep pushing you unguided.I remember one of my peer telling me this "All politicians lies all the time".
Watching the first political debate yesternight,having prepared a little book to take some notes I ended up changing the channel when none of the "politicians" debating could not "swear" by their religion and faiths that they will keep their promises. To me that was additional confirmation that expect nothing but nothing from politicians!
However,apart from their lies I was particulary disturbed with the fact that the Green Party through their leader Jim Harris was not among the debaters. If you read any of the written facts about Canada you will easily find out that Canada has four political parties. Why one of them is delibarately left out of the democratic process like debate leaves many questions to an immigrant like me.
I come from Africa where it is believed that democracy has not yet been well defined leave alone understood and practised. I have tried to search for the meaning of DEMOCRACY to see whether there is a difference between what African countries are supposed to follow and what western countries are supposed to.Through full lights I could not see the difference.What is democracy then?Who is behind the double standards of democracy?As someone who comes from all time blamed countries for failing to honor democratic principles,what should I learn?


mandora said...

Actually, there are many more than four. There is (just off the top of my head):
NDP (new democratic party)
Bloc Quebecois
Green Party
Communist Party
isn't there another one, something about just being a 'marijuana party' or something?....

That's a bunch, but they aren't invited to the debates either. If you'll notice, it's the political left that is excluded.... funny how that works.

The Intolerant One said...

Jeff: I am sending you this link to an editorial that was written about the same question you had as regarding to why the Green Party was excluded. It was a good article.

Check it out. I agree with you and Mandora...(did I just say I agree with Mandora?) anyways, I feel the Green Party should have been included in the debate as well even though I disagree with their policies. The Bloc should not be there as they have no vested interest in Canada except to leave.

Mandora: Girl, what are you talking about when you say:

"it's the political left that is excluded."

Every freakin' party in Canada is left! Except the Conservatives and even some of them are questionable.

The other party you were referring to is indeed called the Marijuana Party. Won't they make the country a better place?( can you hear my sarcasm)

One other party, I don't know if they run candidates out your way, but out here they run candidates Federally for the Christian Heritage Party. Ever heard of them?

mandora said...

Well, I can see how YOU would think that every party is left... :) I would argue that the liberals are right of center or hovering somewhere around the line...

NDP is creeping over the edge that's for sure, but the only real 'leftist' parties in my opinion are the communist party and the green party.

And, I can proudly say that I've never once done any sort of narcotic (for really and for true - I know, I have to turn in my hippy badge now). I'm just personally against it so I don't think that the marijuana party is a very good idea....

I believe we do have some sort of Christian party here, although I don't think that they have a very strong following... our representative for the conservative party is apparently a radical christian, and stephen harper disowned him as being 'too right wing'... that's a scary thought.

Jeff Msangi said...

Thanks a lot for the link.I agree with that editorial.In my opinio this is where democracy becomes questionable.Remember its the same word democracy that mostly led the war into Iraq.But can democracy be present when there is no peace and justice? Iraq case in question.As for Canada I think whoever is in charge of democratic practices here should resign or think again and again.Democracy is democracy,everyone should be included.

mandora said...

Jeff - as per our conversation last night about the Queen and her powers - I looked it up. Apparently she technically has power to disolve parliament etc., but there is an agreement that she is just a figure- head and will not interfere in Canadian government. The only time the Queen (or her representative the Governer General) will interfere is if the government is doing something un-democratic. Then she can refuse to rubber stamp legislation. She is technically only there to make sure that the Charter is observed. Her only REAL power is to deny legislation which does not abide by the Charter.

Jeff Msangi said...

Thanks for further research Mandora.My question remains,does Canada real need any such remotely businesses?

mandora said...

No, we don't NEED it, but it's tradition.... and you know how hard traditions are to get rid of...

The Intolerant One said...

Jeff: You asked if:

"... can democracy be present when there is no peace and justice? Iraq case in question."

Obviously it is difficult to imagine democracy when a country is in the middle of a war. I am probably going to invite a verbal backlash from Mandora on this one but I would suggest to you that YES democracy can take place even when no peace and justice appear to be present.

I think that was self evident this past week when we witnessed over 15 million Iraqi people head to the poll's to exercise a democratic right they never had before. That of course being the right to vote for the leader of their choice. They headed off to the polls in mass droves under direct threat of death by Iraqi insurgents.

It would seem that democracy, rather then fear of death, was their priority. In my opinion, Jeff, Yes democracy can be present in times such as we are seeing. The Iraqi people demonstrated that by exercising it this week. They appear hungry for democracy.

Mandora: Let's discuss:

" I would argue that the liberals are right of center or hovering somewhere around the line.."

Action*(head shaking, eyes rolling to back of head)

If that had any truth to it you and I would not have had the need to debate same sex marriage because a right or even right of center government would have voted against it. Communist and Greens are not left wing. They are left wingnuts! There is a difference.

I don't know if we are gonna be able to hold out till after Christmas...those gloves could come off again sooner then you think.(LOL)

mandora said...

All I would say is: some conservatives voted for same sex marriage too.... just because one issue pushes you to the left, doesn't make you a socialist.

Also, the political spectrum is about more than just moral values - it's also about economic and social policies... in their economic and social policies, the liberals are far more conservative than even the NDP.... one queer marriage bill does not a socialist make.

(and I use queer in the most loving and supportive term for anyone offended)

And, no, the communist and green party are not 'left wingnuts' they are just good representatives of what the left represents. The same as I would argue any Christian party to be at the extreme right and typifying what the right represents. They are simply and 'ideal type' for their respective sides of the spectrum (ideal type being a term by Weber in Sociology - means that it is the pure form of something, against which other things can be measured to see if they are whatever it is that you're looking for)

Also, I won't touch the Iraq issue, although I do agree (yes, I said agree!!!) that you CAN have democracy in places where there is no peace or security (although Iraq is a seperate issue...I think they just traded in one dictatorship for another, but I'll leave that alone for now). In places like many south American countries protestors have demonstrated against undemocratic policies, and many of them wind up dead...(where was the water privatization protest in the last couple of years?...I can't remember)

Look at Mexico and the Zapatista movement - they are argueably one of the most democratic movements of the last century, and they came about as a direct result of repression and violence against their people. Often, it is out of these situations that we see the most democracy happen.